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Talk:Skepsis
I don't know who Keimowitz is/was, but I can identify the other scientists. Should that be appended to each planet's information? 20:31, April 1, 2010 (UTC) :Not a bad idea, just make sure you use "it may also be refering to" if you do. Lancer1289 20:34, April 1, 2010 (UTC) Etymology "Skepsi" must be Modern Greek (although I haven't found it in the online Modern Greek dictionaries that I checked -- admittedly, my Modern Greek is pretty poor). It can't be Ancient Greek. Anyhow, many, many proper nouns in the game are derived from Latin and Ancient Greek roots. This argues strongly in favor of an etymology from Ancient, not Modern, Greek. So does the fact that the name "Skepsis," transcribed, obeys the laws of Ancient Greek morphology. I'm pasting my original trivia entry below. Use it as you will: The word "skepsis" (σκέπσις) does not appear in Ancient Greek, but, following the laws of Ancient Greek morphology, it can be derived from the verb skopeo/skeptomai (σκοπέω/σκέπτομαι), "behold, examine closely." If this is its provenance, "skepsis" is an abstract noun of the meaning "close examination," related etymologically to English "skeptic." Because the planets of the Skepsis system are (mostly) named after famous modern scientists, the word likely refers to scientific practices. To sparthawg: the title "Symvoli tis Arhkaias Spartis stin Politiki Skepsi kai Praktiki" is Modern Greek. Deteugma 04:10, November 15, 2010 (UTC) :Ok. So that takes care of one of the sources I found. You still haven't addressed the fact that the University of Kent (which we can all agree, I think, is a fairly legitimate and knowledgeable institution) says "skepsi" does mean "thought" in ancient Greek. SpartHawg948 04:15, November 15, 2010 (UTC) Okay, go here: http://archimedes.fas.harvard.edu/pollux/ This is the online version of the world's authoritative Ancient Greek dictionary. (Choose to display in unicode, if you want.) Search for "skepsi." You won't get any results because Ancient Greek words never, ever, ever end in "i" (to be more accurate, the dictionary entries for nouns never end in -i, and there's no form of any word in Ancient Greek that can give the form "skepsi") So if "skepsi" is a word in Ancient Greek," the "i" must stand for an eta (η). But that makes it impossible for the word to be Ancient Greek, because, when transcribing an eta from Ancient Greeek into our alphabet, the rule is to use "e." For good measure, run a search for "skepsh." Again, no results. So the claim that "skepsi" is a word that "originally means “thought” in ancient Greek" is untrue. A search for "skepsis" on that page also won't return any results, but I tried to explain that above -- and the writers of Mass Effect are pretty creative with Latin/Greek roots. Kent is certainly respectable, but we don't know anything about the person who wrote that page. And their journal doesn't deal with the period when Ancient Greek was spoken/written; they're Late Medieval/Early Modern. Deteugma 04:42, November 15, 2010 (UTC) Edit: To be more precise, I said ""i" must stand for eta" because, given the laws of Greek morphology, where a noun can end in eta but not iota, that's the only generous interpretation of Kent's translitation. Deteugma 04:47, November 15, 2010 (UTC) :(edit conflict)They don't say when it's from, but given that they specifically say "Skepsi – which originally means “thought” in ancient Greek", I think we can be pretty confident that they aren't using anything from the Late Medieval/Early Modern periods. Regardless, we do have a source (and a fairly authoritative one, at that), which backs the current trivia. And opposed to it, we have your own testimony. The only support you have is that skepsi does not appear in one Ancient Greek dictionary. Now, if there weren't another source saying skepsi is Ancient Greek, that might suffice. But there is, so it doesn't. I don't care who it is, a legitimate source beats personal knowledge/testimony/original research every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. And I don't know about you, but it's Sunday where I am. I'm thinking of running this by a Professor I know who is herself knowledgeable in Ancient Greek, but even then, only to back up the University of Kent source, as by itself, my saying "Well a Professor I know who is knowledgeable on the subject says ___" would not be permissible. SpartHawg948 04:49, November 15, 2010 (UTC) :*addendum - a truly "generous" interpretation of the Kent source is that they are right. Word on the street is that Peer-Reviewed Journals at prestigious universities do engage in fact-checking from time to time. :P SpartHawg948 04:49, November 15, 2010 (UTC) Definitely take it to your professor. Deteugma 04:51, November 15, 2010 (UTC) :*addendum - but if you come back and tell us that he agreed with me, we're stuck with the same problem of testimony; we have only your testimony to go by. Deteugma 05:00, November 15, 2010 (UTC) :*I gave you an authoritative source: the online dictionary. If this is a contest of sources, between the authority of the unnamed author of Kent's webpage and the authority of the foremost scholarly dictionary for Ancient Greek, the dictionary wins. Deteugma 05:03, November 15, 2010 (UTC) ::(edit conflict) Regardless, it occurs to me that the current version should actually be correct. After all, nowhere is it alleged in the article that "skepsi" is an Ancient Greek word. It says that "Skepsis may be named for the plural form (Σκέψεις) of the Greek word "skepsi" (Σκέψη) which means thought". Alleging the use of Ancient Greek is actually sort of a red herring, as it introduces an artificial element to the discussion. And, just based off the first online dictionary I sampled, skepsi would appear to indeed mean thought in Greek. So basically, we're being asked to do away with a version that seems perfectly accurate as is, and go with a version that seems more of a stretch (that, rather than being based on "skepsi", Skepsis is actually based on skepeo, and that rather than being based on the word for thought, it's based on the word for behold or examine closely), based on the notion that, since some other planets and systems are based on Latin or Ancient Greek, it stands to reason that this one must also be based on Ancient, and not Modern, Greek. Can't say I exactly buy into that notion. SpartHawg948 05:04, November 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh, and in the interests of accuracy, I couldn't come back from talking to my professor and tell you that "he" agreed with me. As I previously pointed out, said professor is a she. "I'm thinking of running this by a Professor I know who is herself knowledgeable in Ancient Greek" (emphasis added). SpartHawg948 05:07, November 15, 2010 (UTC) http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skepsis Maybe the writers used urban dictionary. :) Look, do whatever you want. I'm not sure why, though, you feel entitled to stand personally as arbiter of what stays and what goes. To my mind, that violates the spirit of the wiki method. And the snottiness is just uncalled for. I've been courteous and polite. But you've made your point. I won't be back, and I won't try to contribute anything else. Deteugma 06:08, November 15, 2010 (UTC) :I'm sorry? I have no idea what "snottiness" is being referred to. I have also been nothing but polite, and really don't appreciate the insinuation that I have been anything but. If you are referring to my correcting you on the gender of my professor, then I'm sorry, but I respect her enough to ensure that people refer to her properly (as she, not he), especially after I have made clear that she is a woman. If you are referring to something else, then I'm at a loss. I can't tell what it is... Unless you are referring to my challenging of whether a change needs to be made at all based on the premise that the initial reason presented is flawed, introducing an external element ("Ancient Greek" vs "Greek") into the discussion. That was not intended as snotty, it was merely intended to further the discussion. :As for why I "feel entitled to stand personally as arbiter of what stays and what goes", well, that is one of the things a Bureaucrat is called to do on a wiki. It's part of the "wiki method". Again, I can't see anything I've done that wasn't intended as courteous and polite, so I can't understand the huffy "I won't be back, and I won't try to contribute anything else" routine. If you believe any of my actions or words were intended to shut you out or drive you away, you are mistaken. SpartHawg948 07:37, November 15, 2010 (UTC)